William Ntim
Designing a Design Career You Can Be Proud Of
In this episode of Brave UX, William Ntim shares the story of his journey from Ghana to America, why he’s so focused on mastering time, and what he believes is holding designers back.
Highlights include:
- What can we learn from Ernest Hemingway’s approach to life?
- Why do people find soft skills so hard to master?
- How did losing your job change your professional mindset?
- Is it important for designers to love what they do?
- How do you manage constraints to create work you’re proud of?
Who is William Ntim?
William is a Senior UX Designer at Paypal where he’s helping to shape the future of the company’s financial products, making it easier for people to send and receive money across the globe.
Before joining Paypal, William was a Senior UX Designer at The Home Depot. There, William owned the end-to-end experiences for B2B Order Management, Purchase History, Cart and Checkout, as well as several other product experiences.
In 2020 William was named LinkedIn’s #1 Top Voice in Design. In his words, it all started with a single “passionate rant”. What resulted was the incredibly popular 101 Random UX Tips series and book, putting him on the radar for many UXers across the world.
Transcript
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Hello and welcome to another episode of Brave UX. I'm Brendan Jarvis, Managing Founder of The Space InBetween, the home of New Zealand's only specialist evaluative UX research practice and world class UX lab, enabling brave teams across the globe to de-risk product design and equally brave leaders to shape and scale design culture. Here on Brave UX though, it's my job to help you to put the pieces of the product puzzle together, I do that by unpacking the stories, learnings, and expert advice of world-class UX, design and product management professionals.
- My guest today is William Ntim. William is a Senior UX Designer at PayPal where he's helping to shape the future of the company's financial products, making it easier for people to send and receive money across the globe. Before joining PayPal, William was a Senior UX Designer at The Home Depot. There William owned the end-to-end experiences for B2B auto management, purchase history, cart and checkout, as well as several other product experiences.
- In 2020, William was named LinkedIn's number one top voice in design. In his words, it started with a single passionate rant. It resulted in the incredibly popular random UX Tips series that put him on the radar for many UXers across the world. William has since gathered and transformed these pieces of bite sized value into a book called 101 Random UX Tips. You can find out more about that at 101RandomUXtips.com. Alongside his work commitments, William is helping to develop other UXers as a mentor on ADPList. He also shares his knowledge with the community through presentations and podcasts, including for Ignite UX Michigan, Concentric 2021, and Savannah College of Art and Design. And now it's my pleasure to have him here today to speak with me on Brave UX. William, welcome to the show.
- William Ntim:
- Thank you, Brendan. Appreciate you having me.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Yeah, it's great. It really is great to have you here. I can't, can't actually think of a better way to round out the year. This is the last recorded podcast of 2021 for Brave UX. So it is a pleasure to have you here. William and I was also listening to some of the recent interviews that you'd given this year, and there was something that I almost missed in one of them. I had to go back and replay it. And it was that you said that you were born and raised in Ghana and the reason why I had to go back and replay that is cuz you have such a perfect American accent and you didn't elaborate any further on this. So I absolutely had to ask you about this as my first question today. What can you tell me about that journey, your life in Ghana, your journey to America? How old were you when you arrived and how did this all come to be?
- William Ntim:
- Yeah, awesome. No, I'm glad you caught that. Actually a lot of people get surprised by it and it's part of my story, but every now and then it does seem to be forgotten because my accent, I think I lost my accent a little bit there. So yeah, I was born and raised in Ghana, west Africa. Grew up went to high school, senior high school and everything. I was the kid that loved computers. So in Africa to, if you don't have internet access at home, you would have to pay for internet at the in internet cafe, which is a, let's say it's about a dollar an hour or the local currency is CDIs, but I forgot him, whatever, what the actual amount was. But it was, you pay for the time and you sit behind a computer and you can browse, check your emails and all that.
- So my mom would actually give us money to go do that, how little kids or certain kids would be playing video games or doing this and that. I was just going to the internet cafe, see I was me messing with photo draw, Microsoft photo draw, which is a very old, old application. And I think there was a free website builder website that I used to just play around building websites, but I don't remember what, I don't know if it was Webs or Wicks or something was there way back then back in the two thousands. So I used that to play around. That was really how my love for software design form. And then I got fast forward, I got accepted to Lone Star College here in Houston, Texas. And then that's really, that was in 2009. I was 19 years old. Oh, well there's a fun story that I just remembered too. Yeah.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Gosh. Yeah, we're all about fun stories.
- William Ntim:
- So another crazy thing is, so before I left I wanted to be an actor. I've wanted to be a lot of things in my lifetime. So an actor was one of 'em.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Well William, I can see that. I reckon, I reckon if this whole product design thing doesn't pan out, I reckon you should be acting another shot.
- William Ntim:
- Definitely. I wanted to be an actor, a model. I mean, I wanted it to be a lot of things. I think I'd been a rapper at one point, but anyway, we'll get to that. Sorry. But yeah, so I wanted to be an actor. I auditioned for a local comic show in Ghana and I got the main character. So this was a TV show. So it was pretty huge. It was huge. And I believe if I did not come to the United States in 2009, I probably would be pursuing Acton in Ghana, cuz that was a major comedy show that was aired on one of the main local channel. So I was acting in the middle of acting. I think we shot, let's say, shot quite a few episodes and then it's like, oh, I got my acceptance letter from the university or the college community college.
- And then I was like, oh director, I got a leave for America. It's like, okay, well when you coming back, that's fine, we can take a break. It's like, no, I'm leaving, but I have no return ticket right now it's college, four years. And then I don't know what that's going to look like afterwards. So he had to update the story, the storyline, the script. They didn't kill me in the script, but they made me travel for school and the replacement with another character. So it was quite sad, but it, it's pretty interesting. That was what I was doing. I had graduated senior high school and between senior high school and university was kind of what that time was, what I was doing with my time. Yeah.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- So you got your entrance, you come over and you go to college in the States. Did you have to leave family behind? Was this something that you did on your own? And just tell me about that. What was that like?
- William Ntim:
- So my older brother, so I do have some family here, but majority of family is back home. But it was a very interesting experience since that was the first time I took an airplane. So it was pretty wild. But I think I'm an adventurous guy, so it was bittersweet. But I had these goals or I knew my potential and I needed access to new technology to opportunities that I didn't find back in Ghana at that time. And even with internet, in internet access, you had to go to internet cafe to pay for it, which I'm sure you could get that installed. There are homes that have it in Ghana now, but we lived pretty far from, not super far, but we lived in a new construction area, so trying to get electricity out I not electricity out, we had electricity trying to get the internet out there. It was just so much work and my mom wasn't super tech heavy, so it was just like, look, it wasn't
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Yeah. So things that we take for granted when you live somewhere in Houston or where I do in Auckland, it's just as a given that you're going to have it, but I can understand the definite need that you're describing there to actually go somewhere. Just access is readily available so you can develop and build on those skills that you were working hard on in that internet cafe. Yeah, it's great to hear that you weren't just playing games either, because that's usually what people are doing in internet cafes.
- William Ntim:
- Yeah, I was weird. I was up there, I was building websites. I a actually had a t-shirt clothing line in Ghana that was, I would buy blank t-shirts and buy paint and design and I would be outsell 'em to my classmate, high school classmates and everything. I did that, it was pretty successful too. I had a lot of people buying my clothes, my clothing brand, and I think people still have it to this day. I also sold I created these drawstring bags, custom, all handmade. I would buy material leather, different kinds. I'll go to the market to buy all these different ty types of fabric and then cut out and create custom backpacks. I mean, I was really going in with all the crafts and stuff and I was making money and then I, I graduated and then went into Act 10 and then got the acceptance and the visa and all that.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Yeah, and it's this confidence, this positivity and this entrepreneurialism that you're describing that did stand out to me when I was looking at your body of work, watching your previous interviews and of course preparing for today. And you said something recently on another interview, one with Caden Dano that made me a bit curious about another aspect of you, which is something that you're actually kind of talking about here, which is this quite deep seated drive to do lots of things. You obviously are quite focused, but you don't mind being busy, you know, are working at PayPal as a full-time product designer. You've released a book recently, I understand you're working on another one, you've also become a father. Just two books, see this is what I'm talking about and throw in there Becoming a father recently as well, that's a pretty full plate that you've got going on. Yeah. So Hamman, how are you balancing, if that's even the right word, managing the professional demands that you have placed upon yourself and the sort of personal demands, if you like, that fatherhood brings.
- William Ntim:
- Yeah, definitely. No, that's a very good question. I think the honest answer is actually, I'm not going to say that. I was going to say the honest answer is like, oh, I don't know, it just happens, but it really [laugh]. But I feel like that's going to be misleading to a lot of people listening who want to be able to manage your time better and all that. The honest answer is I, it's planning and strategy. Cause for me, I've been, and discipline and all the things that we read about and watch about I do these things. Can I say that I do it naturally. I'm thinking, thinking I do it naturally, but it, it's something that you have to, it's a skill that you have to develop, you know what I mean? So it's like you can get to that natural performance or peak level of performance, but it's LeBron James or all these great athletes, they practice, practice so much.
- Then it becomes a natural thing where they're like I was like, how are you so great? Well, I don't know, I'm just, look, I'm good at what I do. But it's practice, it's strategy, it's planning, and also that drive, you know, gotta have goals. It really comes down to the goals aspect. So yeah, constantly learning, constantly reading, constantly just plan out the day to. So I've been telling people this recently actually that I'm a second kind of guy, like seconds as in minutes, hours and seconds. And I think it's pretty cool. I just think it's a cool way to say it because a lot of people miss out on the second of each day. But I plan to the second. So when we were on a call, you heard my alarm go off. I've planned to the second or lived by the second rule so much so that I can sit still for specific period of time and tell you exactly how much time has passed without, you know what I mean? So I could, without looking at the watch, just sit here and be having a conversation with you and we could be drinking, having a drink and just talking about life. And I would mentally know, okay, it's probably about 30, 32, 35 minutes so far. And then just kind of planning if I have somewhere to be and the next 45, I'm already kind of mentally doing that work of like, okay, maybe let's bring it here, let's take it there. It's pretty cool. But yeah, planning strategy,
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Well I wanna go into that actually. So let's stay on time because time well without getting too cliched is our most precious resource and how we spend it, who we choose to invest it with and really speaks a lot about who we are and what we value. And I recently heard you describe your relationship with time as well, and you said that's changed in recent years. In fact, I believe you bought an hourglass just so that you could hold time in your hands. In
- William Ntim:
- My hands, yes, yes. Where
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Does this come from? This is something interesting to unpack. Where does this need to, it seems like to me anyway, command control time, where does this come from?
- William Ntim:
- I think it's a lot of, you're right, it has to come from somewhere. And I think it's a combination of where I was born and raised. Cause in Africa the opportunities, there's electricity, it's not as, there are worse parts, but I feel, and we were middle class, so we were good. My mom was, she raised us, she was single mom, but she was fine. And my older brother went to University of Texas here. So we weren't super poor or anything, we were just middle class, we were average. We had everything that we needed. But I feel like coming from that part of the world, you learn to appreciate the smallest things so much. And back to coming back to what you were talking about opportunity. So when I touched down here in the United States, and we'll get to that in more details, I know, but there's so much opportunity that I saw that a lot of people were blind to, and that's just the natural tendency of human to not see what they have when they have it.
- And that's just everybody, myself included. And even goes back to way back in the 19 hundreds or well back during the slave trade time and all that where it's like, well Africans were sitting on gold. And then it's like, what do we really do with it? I don't know. But it is just whatever you have, if it's a precious opportunity and you don't take advantage of it, mostly there are people, third eye or third perspectives that are coming in that will see the value of that more than you would. But I believe it comes from where I was raised, the way I was raised. I think my mom did a good job raising us and then reading learn, I'll learn and read so much and just like I
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Did your mother read to you a lot when you were a kid?
- William Ntim:
- I think so. I think so. She, she's a retired police woman, so I think she did when we were really little, but my memories kind of stopped around seven years old. That's where as far as I can remember too. And back then well at that age we were going to school on our own. So it was like, hey. But yeah, so a lot of reading, a lot of learning and then just always want the need or the want to be better and the want to fully become fully emerge. Because I listened to this, was it a sermon? No, it was just talk a webinar about from Dr. Miles Munro and he said a seed has everything he needs in it. And I think that struck me and that's just maybe a past six, seven years that I've been listening to him. And it's like, so the seed has that whole tree inside the seed, it's just a matter of putting it down, planting it and then all of that emerges.
- So realizing that as a human being, there is a purpose that I have to accomplish. But then also realizing that wait, you can do and become anything you want. What it's like, oh my goodness, I could be that and this and that. It's just like, let me do it. So I just try to do all I can and then enjoy life to the fullest also because a little bit morbid, but because I won't be here forever, I want to take advantage of my time here and impact as much lives as I can. And so that way when my time is up, I can say deuces guys. It was fun.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Yeah. You know, spoke about a lot of reading, a lot of thinking. But you, you've also described the third ingredient in that, which is a lot of doing a lot of action. And when I was thinking about what I had already known about your views on time when I was preparing for today, today, it reminded me of a quote of Napoleons, or at least it's attributed to Napoleon, the old French General, which was the quote, is the reason I beat the Austrians is they did not know the value of five minutes. And you know, that's to do with obviously military strategy on the battlefield. And there's a window in every battle back in those days where that five minutes can turn the tide in your favor. But you described just before about living to the second, which has taken Napoleon and blowing him well out of the water here. Yeah. [laugh]. What it seems to me like you and I use this word not lightly, but it seems to me that it's almost as if you're afraid that you're going to run outta time before that, your final moment to get done whatever it is that you seek to get done.
- William Ntim:
- Yes, yes. No, absolutely. I think that's the sense of urgency is what a lot of people miss. And even in relationships, I've had relationships, we're all adults, but even in relationships, it's just friendships, males, females, it doesn't matter, it's just time is so I feel like it's difficult to help people realize it's delicacy, which can be such a huge disconnect between people. And then another crazy or funny thing is, so back in Ghana, if something is five, you normally show up 5 15, 5 20, the African time they call the African time. Just what it's so, but in getting to the United States and realizing, wait, no, that's not how it works. It's normally before. So I had to shift into that. But I think the overall, that crux of me valuing time, okay. Cause back home I did design a fashion design, I did accent, I went to school, got my degrees.
- So it was like I want to take advantage of every little second. And that our glass comment that I made mean that was so exciting to me when I could really process, oh this is one hour, I'm literally looking at the time and feeling this is one hour and it's passing by. I think that was so crazy to me just to realize. And then the more I read and the more I learn, it's like, wow, you really, and you're getting older and just everything around you is really prepping you to value what time has given you and has given you so far. And I think it's something that we have to continue to take advantage of.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- I have to say that maybe it's just the particular time of year that we are recording this in the relatively reflective state that I've been in, although it has been hectic as well. It's so refreshing to have this conversation about time and to hear you speak with such fervor, impassion for life and how you live it and where you spend your time. I think it's a really great reminder for us. And when this comes out, it will be January, but for us at the beginning of a new year to take stock of and to think about just exactly how we're going to spend that time. And you're also reminding me of something else that's really important. And it has come up a couple of times in conversation on the podcast, which is the real energy that people that immigrate from one country to another and a fresh pair of eyes that they bring when they do that injects so much value into their new home of choice.
- And this is something that I was speaking with, I dunno if you've come across Koji who's a senior design manager, miniature Twitter, Kochi Perrera, a previous guest and he came from Brazil to the US probably about around the same time that you did actually maybe a little later. And we were having a similar conversation just about that energy and also the value that the immigrant people do bring. And I think we forget that. We forget that we're not aware of it. We get so used to people that are from the country that you are immigrating to. We forget that cuz we get too complacent and too comfortable.
- William Ntim:
- Yeah, no, I agree. And it's interesting now that we're talking about it, it seems to be every single immigrant in every single other country or foreign country because the whole African thing, yeah, we had foreign teachers come down and we have, you have foreign business owners and entrepreneurs, investors flying out to different parts of the world. It's just that there is always a new view perspective of like, oh wait, you guys have this, we could do this and that with this. And then they get in there and then next thing you know they start an operation of some massive corporation and you're just like, wait, but dang, we lived around this all our lives. And in the same way with people coming to the United States or going to other places, it's just new perspective. And I think the key is probably the new perspective. So being able to, being in a new world or a new environment creates new perspective. So another part of why I move the way I do is also for that new perspective opportunity there of, okay, even in my UX design career, I have worked in so many different industries, but still a UX designer. And the reason I did that was to be able to learn all these new, to obtain and retrieve all these new perspectives from different industries and how it pertains to UX design. So I'm
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Really pleased you brought that up. Yeah, I'm a really key point actually that your intentionality around experiencing different industries and I believe you've come to a happy place now and PayPal in terms of finance. Yes. And at least I've heard you talk about it in terms of you feel like this is a industry or a sector that you are wanting to invest a significant amount of time in no matter, I don't know what the amount that amount is, but you are quite happy here. What is it about having been and seen a number of different industries and now finally arrived in finance? What is it about finance that has really captured you?
- William Ntim:
- So I think that's a really good question. I think, or as I matured in my career, in my profession as it grew from junior to senior, I also grew in just life and interest and in knowledge of managing investments or saving money or finances or well, how are you going to take care of yourself over the next two years, three, so planning ahead and all of that. So that has always been my interest. And I've been in investments here and there and real estate and all that as I grew. So it was kind of at the stage that I am now, it was just kind of a happy marriage there where I was like, okay, if I can still do what I'm doing as a senior UX designer, I would love to be in finance because I mean I've always had a bank account and some, first of all, some of the UX pretty is pretty bad with financial institutions.
- But also I believe that's going to give me insight. It's going to gimme knowledge, new perspective on how finance works, how to be even a better manager of my finances. I mean I've done a pretty good job I think so far. But there's always room to grow. And plus I had pretty much touched on a lot of major industries already at the time I, I've been in the real estate hair care health and fitness. So I was kind of really checking the boxes and I was like, yeah, finance seems to be the next thing for me. I need to get in there. I had a brief break with another company Skill Factor before PayPal and that was finance. So I think I got a taste of that and I was like, yeah, this is where I wanna be. Let's talk, let's tough numbers. Yeah, I like talking and anything with numbers now, that's kind of where my interest is this season. So yeah,
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Things are going really well for you and that is fantastic to hear. And that's definitely been the trajectory that you've been on, but it hasn't always been smooth sailing, has it? Yeah, I remember you talking about a time in particular in 2017 where you lost your job at Build Matter and it took you three months to get your next job, which was at the Home Depot. And you said, and I'm going to paraphrase here, you said that at the time you weren't even on LinkedIn and you promised yourself that you would never let this happen to you again.
- William Ntim:
- Never, ever, ever.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Why did it take, so take us back there. Let's rewind the clock, rewind time, rewind time. Why did it take three months at that point in your life to get a new job? And what actions did you take as a result of that?
- William Ntim:
- So it was interesting because I had been in the industry for over six, seven, well six years or five years, a little over five years but it was the last three were remote, last two and a half were remote. So I did not know anybody or have a network here in Texas. And then living in Houston, the network, I had a huge network there, but I owned a magazine company at that time. So the whole network that I had, there were more businesses and young professionals and it was huge in that fashion and young professional industry arts and all that. But then for software design, that was like my full-time and I didn't really have a network around that. And then I moved to Austin, Texas for host Skater, a job at Host Skater. That was really what brought me to Austin. And I loved it.
- And I fell in love with the city, but then I was still remote. Well, I was in person until I left Host Gator for a remote company. And I worked there for about a year and a half. So if the benefit, that's a disadvantage of working remote, you know, don't have that physical or if you don't make conscious effort to build a physical network, you don't have that. And then here I was after my contract was technically over, cuz we rebuilt the system and the software and relaunched the Edutech platform. Oh, that's the thing. I've been in education as well, which I think was huge. It was like, well, low funding, it's startup, startup life, low funding, et cetera. I was like, okay, this is not for working. And as needed. So ones that was done, they were like, Hey, well we're going to have to let you go.
- And I was not a problem cause I'm good, I had a good resume. I was like, yeah, I'll find another company. And then I was like, wait, two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, five weeks. And it's like, oh, this is not as easy as I thought. And then I didn't active on LinkedIn but I was just researching, applying, doing this and figuring out where is that network that I wanna build. And it's like, okay, if you wanna focus on your career, you have to build this career, you have to build this network. So then I started looking into LinkedIn and then I was like, oh, this is really where it's happening. Boom, what do I want to be or see? And then I wrote it down, strategized and I, I've given several talks on the details of that and we can go as deep or as shallow as you want.
- But I kind of talked about setting the goals that like you said, this is not going to happen again. Recruiters are going to reach out to me. That's where I'm going to position myself and I'm about to start now. And then I just started posting, started my strategy, just execute. I'm talking late nights, adding people, sending messages of just connecting the network first and then posting the content. I think the success of that is the post is posting content that is actually value lot. We talk about LinkedIn success or LinkedIn, LinkedIn, I guess LinkedIn success. But then most people leave out the value part. You cannot just post to post because oh you have to post more. It's not just posting more, it's posting value. So I write my posts, my tips, I reread them, I edit them. Sometimes I write 'em two, three days ahead and just sit on it, think through it.
- It's a whole process that people miss and people don't understand. So I went through all of that to build that network. And then now fast forward, this was, yeah, so 20, was it 20? I think it was 2019. Yeah, 2019. Cause I haven't been at PayPal for that long and And Home Depot. So 2019 was when I started LinkedIn going applying, implementing my strategy. And then fast forward a year after, I'm crowned top design, top voice and design, which is like, wait a minute, that wasn't part of my plan. My plan was to get to the point of having professional success and then also building the network so that I don't have to spend three months and looking for a job. But then here you are, it's like, wait, here's a little accent on the cake. We actually appreciate you from LinkedIn itself and now I'm part of the LinkedIn influencer network like thingy and it's just
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Beautiful. But it didn't happen by accident. I think this is the important thing, and I understand the job market in the last couple of years with the move to remote and with the pandemic. It's pretty good right now for product and design people, but I think this is such an important point that you are making or the story that you're telling about needing to not leave career success or your trajectory up to chance. And actually you spoke about taking action earlier, but also in here you've spoken about creating value through those posts. And then this is, we are talking about the 101 random UX tips that actually ended up becoming the book. And of course that is. And so you can see how these actions build on top of each other and they have really helped you to get into this position now where you are in demand and you have built yourself a really solid network. And you will probably never experience that situation again that you did in 2017.
- William Ntim:
- Never. Yeah, I know never. Because now I'm sitting on thankfully and super grateful, but I'm sitting on or I have a connection or network with so many major companies that I'm just like, oh, this is awesome. And it's not just because I want to of the value that I brought to the table to say, Hey guys, I actually have something to offer. And it's not just an emotional offer, it's actually something that I've been putting in work for the past six, seven years. So here's all my experience so far and the knowledge that I brought and they're like, oh actually we find this useful, so we want you. It's like, oh, well thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- But you, you've also used an analogy in the past, you've talked about this notion of a fruit tree and I don't know if that's sparking anything. Yeah,
- William Ntim:
- Yeah.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- For you, do you wanna tell us about that? Cause I thought that was quite a nice way of summing up what
- William Ntim:
- It's talking about. Yeah, it's something I stole from one of my readings as well. But it's like I was talking about the seed earlier of the seed has everything that it needs and you're a seed. A seed, you have everything you need to succeed and to fulfill your purpose on earth. And so once I understood that concept, I was like, oh, I could be anything. I can do whatever. But then after the seed germinates and becomes a tree, it does not go to the market to offer its apple fruits to customers. Actually the farmer would have to go to the tree to pluck some apples if they want apples. If the tree's by the roadside people would have to walk to the tree to get some of the fruit. If there are animals, if this tree's in the wild, the animals will, will have to go to the tree. So it really changes your understanding of if you become somebody that provides value, people will come to you. And I was like, this is not rocket science. This is such a beautiful principle that I was like, oh, so all I have to do is be a personal value done, read, practice, practice, work.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- I can do that.
- William Ntim:
- Refine your craft and then position yourself in a way that you can be found. That's another part that I think people missed of just refine the craft, refine your skills, and then position yourself in that perfect place. Cuz the tree can be deep down in the woods somewhere with no access to animals or humans, and those fruits are just going to fall down and they'll ro. But if you're properly positioned, you would have the benefit that you're looking for. And also those fruits would be useful. But yes, that concept continues to prove true. I've given so many talks in large universities, I do not have a four year, year university degree, but I've given talks at four year university, you know what I mean? It's crazy. So
- Brendan Jarvis:
- There's another myth that we could get into there, the myth of formal education that might sidetrack us, but you're making an incredibly relevant and true point here, or at least I believe it to be true. I was speaking to Jamie Levy, who's the author of UX Strategy a couple of weeks ago, and she was saying that she invested two years writing the first edition of the book. It was a low income period for her because she was putting all of her energy into the book. And she said that the best thing that she did, or she realized after she'd written the book was she needed to get out there and tell people about the book. So she went tour the world, spoke, gave workshops, did the whole marketing piece that sometimes in design we feel a little bit icky about, but there's no point writing a wonderful book like that and then not telling anyone about it because people will not come. People will not find you. So
- William Ntim:
- Exactly. Not position it. You've gotta position it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Really key, key point. Yeah. I wanna come to the writing piece of your content, of your posts. You've obviously talked about how you would write them, you'll sit on them for a few days, you'll reflect on them, consider whether or not they are actually of value. It strikes me that this process, and I suppose this is not uncommon for many authors, is quite a self-reflective exercise and requires you to sharpen your own mind in order to ensure that what it is that you're putting out there is going to sharpen others. Yes. What personal blind spots or rough edges have you discovered in yourself or in your practice of UX as a result of putting all this energy and investment into writing your knowledge down and sharing it with the world?
- William Ntim:
- I'll definitely say because English, so Ghana was colonized by the uk no, by the British. So we speak the queens English, the queen was our president back in the day. So that's good. I have that going for me, good education and all that. But I still want to be able to even grow in my English expertise. I'm trying to find a fancy word. I couldn't think of something, anything but my English writing and speaking skills, even though I've come a long way and I've done it a lot of things that most people haven't, but I still want to even do more. I read and I read from people like Ernest Hemingway and see us Lewis and Josephus and all these crazy authors and crazy awesome, in an awesome way from back in the day and even in our new authors near ai, in the indestructible and hooked and just modern authors and just really learning about their life, learning about their process and realizing, and even movies too.
- Movies that are nerdy that talk about books and authorship and writers that just really has always inspired me in their respect for the craft, which I think is huge. Most people, just in my first book, I took my time and everything, but I always want that next product to be better than the first. Right? I'm actually writing as I said too, and I promise you on this podcast, Brendan, that I'll be releasing the one first before, of course, one at the time, the one I'll be releasing, it's going to have a black, predominantly black design. I won't give out the title yet, but predominantly black design. And that's going to be one of the most sold UX books of all time. I'm telling you that right now. And
- Brendan Jarvis:
- What is it, what that's going to hook people so badly that they're, they're going to want to buy a copy. What are you covering?
- William Ntim:
- It's going to be the entire, from my perspective, p o V, the entire blueprint for UX success, literal blueprint of like, hey, this is our craft. This is what we do, and this is really the breakdown of how you excel and succeed in here. You're welcome aboard, jump on. But this is here, this is really how you do it. We're producing thousands and thousands of UX boot campers graduates who are just jumping in into the field. And then you have those that are not good, they're just not good. And those that are just imposters. And you have those that really care about the crap because there are people that come into UX for the money and I've given talks about it, I've posted about it and said, look, if you're here for the money, you're not going to last. Because it's very emotionally draining the process of UX, the stakeholder buy-in, the rejection, the approvals, the research.
- It's tedious and not everybody's going to last. But there are certain things that we do, we did and we continue to do as senior UX designers that can help you avoid a lot of these same mistakes. So it's really going to going to be that book that's like helping designers, both senior and junior to senior mid-level, just everyone to say, Hey, look, if I'm feeling like having an imposter syndrome a little bit, or if I'm feeling down or feeling unmotivated, something that you could pick up to say, okay, where am I in the process? And then what are some of the things that are going to be happening around me at this time, at this season? So I'm putting a lot of effort into the research, into the artistry of it. I think that's the most important part. I'm also writing it as a masterpiece. So the choice of words, the arrangement and the hierarchy of words, the, it's just a whole art that I'm having a good time writing for designers. So it's aif, we're in Figma designing something that's kind of, I'm the goal I'm trying to achieve with the book. When you're reading it as a designer, I want you to feel like, wow, you're designing something like this is a designer writing for another design. So it's, it's going to be pretty exciting.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- And is this the book inspired by the talk that you've given called How to Increase Your Competitive Advantage As You Design? Yes. Yeah, because I want to come that, cuz that is on my little list of things to cover with you today. Awesome. You spoke about in that talk the need the very real need to focus on the soft skills ahead, the technical.
- William Ntim:
- So actually lemme, sorry Brian, let me interject a little bit. It's not necessarily that one, I think that probably probably planted the seed. But the next talk, however that followed was the reverse engineering your UX career. That was the one that spurred it all. And I was up till 3:00 AM preparing, preparing content for that talk. That was when that idea hit. Yeah, but it was right up to the one you were talking about. Yeah.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- We'll let zero in on if we can, on the soft skills. Cuz I think this is such an important thing to cover. You mentioned people coming out of boot camps and sort of other formal education and then they run into the very real brick wall that can exist when you're actually in a real company doing real work for the first time or even just a different environment. You might have come from a really supportive, really helpful design based environment and move into another company that doesn't quite have that same level of maturity. And there are some challenges. What is it about soft skills, the things that we have to do every day, empathize with others learn to listen, really truly put our human face forward in the best way that people struggle with. So fundamentally, this strikes me as really strange thing for such a species, humanity is an incredibly, we're successful because we are cooperative. Yes. For some reason when we hit the work environment, the corporate environment, we seem to freak out and freeze when it comes to some pretty basic stuff. Why is this?
- William Ntim:
- Well, that's a really good question and that's something that I continue to help my mentees and to guide them and to just try to hammer it home to say, listen, this is something that you need. And I think it's especially difficult in our world today in the modern world because it's modern and everything is so, I feel like there, there's more of an appreciation for entitlement. And I would assume that you and I from when we were growing as younger kids, you had to either, either you had to acquire whatever you wanted, not acquire work for it kind of thing. Say please, if you're asking for something and just really learn how to maneuver your way around getting what you want. And I think we have lost that a bit of that in our society today, especially with the younger generation coming up. And that is affecting the workforce.
- It's affecting everything. Because you have junior, I have mentees that from all over the world I'm on calls from with mentees in the UK at 1:00 AM or India, China. I mean, it's everywhere. But I hear a lot of oh, well, like you're saying about different work environments, I've had multiple different work environments. That in itself is not a deal breaker. The deal breaker is how you look at it, how prepared do you understand that process? And I went into every single industry that I worked at with the lens of here to learn something new. You see here to learn something new. So if I get there and it's a horrible work environment, I'm protecting my sanity, protecting my peace. But with the P o V, the perspective of I'm here to learn something new because there is going to be something to be learned at every company, doesn't matter the environment.
- And I feel like a lot of people miss that. And they just focus on writing long LinkedIn posts, bashing companies and bashing other humans and even recruiters like, oh, well I didn't get a call back and this is not right. And it's like, relax, this other person is a human too. Whatever they're going through also matters. Like everybody's situation matters, but what can you do is to look at it and find out what you're supposed to be learning in that moment. Because it could be okay, learning that team structure does not work for you, but because they're paying the bills and because you are also in the field that you want to be. You're learning, you're designing, you're growing. If you can execute, get your job done, learn. So that's that exchange that you're doing there. And then figure out how long you can stay there for. Right? Okay, maybe I can do this for two years. Great. You do your two years with your shoulders high, with your chest out, with joy and execute it to the fullest of your abilities. And then just take all that knowledge and guess what? Just spring and excel from
- Brendan Jarvis:
- There. This is so, such an important point that you're making. And I'm not saying, I'm not suggesting in any way that there isn't bad shit that goes on that shouldn't be tolerated. And there are definitely things that happen in our world that yeah, you just don't have to put up with. Yeah. But 99% of the time, and again, that's a huge generalization. If you can adopt this mindset, the one that you've just spoken about, William, about seeing it as a learnable or a teachable moment. What am I learning from this crap experience? Yes. What a way to protect yourself and what a way to build yourself. Yes. I really think that's such a key framing that you've just brought there.
- William Ntim:
- Yeah. I mean, one thing, I just thought of this thing from this event, from Ernest Hammer Way, and I watched his biography once, and that changed my life. It changed. There was one time where I think he went out drinking or paused right in and went out just living life just out there in Italy and somewhere just having a good time. And people were just kind of talking, really saying the worst about him. Like, oh, you fell off, you can't really write anymore. And he's like, oh really? I mean, the press, everybody's just talking crap about him. He is like, all right. Took a break, just isolated himself. And then wrote another piece. And I'm kind of shortening the whole process there. But I think while he was doing that, he wrote one that was a failure. People just didn't accept it. And he's like, oh, I'm still the man.
- I can still do this in my sleep. I'm going to go back in and actually isolate myself and put in that same level of energy. And then just wrote another one that blew all his previous works and sales and numbers in the water. So it's important for us to understand those lessons that we're learning through the different environments that we're in. But yes, that outlook is very important and it's not what we're seeing. I, you talk to mentees and I talk to mentees, it's just the complains, the thing, the type of things they're complaining about. It's look, not that we're not passionate or we don't have feelings, we understand, we hear you. But it's really, those are all things that can be learnable and teachable moments, of course, unless it's crazy abuse, but something that's harmful to your human existence and your sanity and everything. We're not saying any of that is okay, but it's just that there's a lot that we can feed off to become better at our craft, better at as professionals, which will help us to grow to that next level that we're looking to grow
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Into. Most of what we're talking about isn't falling into that bucket of things you shouldn't tolerate. Most of it is actually just learning how to be an effective human and yes, get done what you need to get done with the cooperation of others. And I think if we can blame anyone [laugh] for this situation with people maybe needing to do some work on themselves, we could probably blame their parents, which maybe not, oh
- William Ntim:
- Yes,
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Maybe it's not a popular thing. But this whole helicopter parenting and the fragility that has come along with that with some of our younger humans is really not done anyone a service. Yes. Now, do you get the feeling that some of your mentees just need to do a little bit more work on themselves, on their own before they come to you with their problems?
- William Ntim:
- Oh yes, absolutely. And I'm saying this outta love, because if senior designers don't, if we're not honest with our junior designers and entry level designers, they're never going to achieve their fullest potential. But if we're brutally honest with them, it saves 'em so much headache and it saves 'em from repeating the mistakes that we made when we were climbing up that ladder. But yeah, going back to those soft skills, soft skills are through the window now. No one really understands the hierarchy, the need for cooperation, the need for respecting your boss, and just the whole team dependencies and goodness. Everything's just about me. That participation trophy concept of like, well, why is not everyone not listening to me? Because there are 20 people in the room and we have Yeah, and you're not really the ceo [laugh].
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Yeah. And Zoom's made it fairly difficult during the pandemic because it's very rare that you actually meet someone else's eyes directly. We're all looking down at the box, I'm doing it, I'm looking at you. Cause I'm looking at the camera. But I mean, when was the last time you actually eyeballed someone and had a good human conversation with them?
- William Ntim:
- Exactly. There's a lot of that as also play into it. And that's why we're talking about consciously making the effort to build that network, that physical network, and then physical presence and interaction with other humans. Cuz it's really helps with building your growth, your courage, your practice. You gotta practice that human connection and it's important. Yeah.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- What are some of the limiting beliefs or myths that designers that you've encountered in the community, whether they're mentees or colleagues or past colleagues, what are some of those myths or beliefs that we in general terms are holding onto that aren't doing us any favors and that we need to do our best to let go
- William Ntim:
- Of? Wow, that's a good question. There are quite a few, off the top of my head what I can think about right now. Cause I'm thinking more in senior. I'm thinking also mid level now. I would say a lot of people conclude that one is better than the other when it comes to large sized or small sized companies. And I think that is something that's limiting designers, growth designers accelerate or ability to excel because somebody's goal might be to work at Google and that is a very valid goal. That's what they want. Or somebody's goal might be to work at PayPal and that is what they want. It's just like, yeah, PayPal is really, really huge, but it's what they want and that's valid. And then somebody else might just want to stay in a small startup team size, and that's also okay, it doesn't matter.
- Genius senior. So I feel like that's always limiting because when the opportunities knock, that's where people start getting caught up with their emotions and with the ideas of, and beliefs of like, oh, well, Amazon is in my inbox and these are just examples. But this person would just say, oh, Amazon is in my inbox but I'm not going to respond or accept because I want to work at a startup company. That's great, but it's still very limited. And I feel like it's limited, but it's limited. But it is also acceptable. It's fine. I mean, everything's acceptable to everyone, to each their own. But it's fun and acceptable if that's kind of your strategy of like, okay, I'm going to turn this down and I'm preparing myself in these other areas to get that startup job that I want. That's fine. I talk about strategy a lot and goal setting, great planning. But if you're kind of just really winging a lot of things and really not really planning and strategizing your life, I feel like that's going to be something that will limit you because you don't know what you don't know.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Yeah. So you're saying don't, don't not act with intentions. So still be intentional, still know what it is, intent that you want, but leave enough space for considering things that might come out of left field so that you're not running the risk of being myop and missing a great opportunity when one presents itself,
- William Ntim:
- Right? Yes, exactly. Because that opportunity could save your career. You never know. It could be that one opportunity that would excel you to manage 3,500 people in the next 10 years, but because of your limited perspective, you ruined it. So that's one of them.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Is it important for designers to be in love with the product, to really deeply, truly believe in the product on which they're working?
- William Ntim:
- And that is in all the talks, and it's in everything I've written and everything I talk about and that's where I get a little I guess, red pill, like a little harsh or direct that if you're in for the money, you're not going to make it. And it's like, ouch. But I'm serious. And I say that with love because the heartache or heartbreak from the pain and the emotional toll that UX takes when people, if you are not passionate about it, you're not going to be able to handle it. That's
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Just, what is that heartbreak? What is that toll? What are you talking about when you say that?
- William Ntim:
- So those tolls are, for instance getting stakeholder buy-in. CEOs are not necessarily the very nice of people. They're not here to kind of babysit. You know what I mean? If you think take an organizational structure, the CEO's not there to make friends necessarily. He's there to build a company to build and business objectives and goals and execute. So it's important for designers to understand that sometimes your stakeholder buy-in feedback is not going to come in package in the box that you're looking for. You might be looking for that pink with a rib ribbon with a bow, and it might just come in a camouflage military style box.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Oh, just a plain brown, plain brown, one tan,
- William Ntim:
- No bow. Yeah, no bow. And no tape is the box is just sitting in it. And you have to understand, if you're not passionate enough, that's going to set you off. It's really going to set you over and you're just going to be like, oh, this guy is the meanest person on earth. But then what happens is you leave that company burn bridges and then go to another company expecting this over the rainbow idea, which will never exist because you don't have the passion and you're looking for that payout. And yes, UX pays very well, but you have to have that passion. And if you don't have the passion to start with, as you learn what we're here for, learn what we're doing, we're actually affecting the future of technology. So this is no easy feat of I just, oh, I could create a button that looks easy.
- These guys are getting paid how much? No way. That's silly. There are people that tough down on the craft that are genius designers that I've spoken to will talk down on their craft as if it's just like, oh, it's just a red button with exit on it. I could totally do that. And then in turn around and want the profession to just bow to their kind of their perspectives or their entitled beliefs. It's like, no, you came in kind of looking down on everybody in here. Really, this is not going to change for you because it's real. This is serious. What we're doing is very serious affecting experiences, emotions we're affecting. Wow. People don't understand. It's very deep. So it
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Sounds like this really frustrates you.
- William Ntim:
- It really does, because that affects the output of experiences that we create over the next 10 years. And I take that very to heart because when we came into the field, I feel like UX was at a certain point that we were excited to be a part of. It was, I feel like the previous UX designers the experts that came before us, did a great job of setting that precedence for us. And then it's up to us to really uphold that same level of seriousness. Like writers take their art, it's like, Hey, this is very delicate. The book is finished, but I need to go back and reread it and actually throw it all out and start again. And then you have an editor who's going to go through and read it and then tell you, Hey Brendan, this three chapters are going to be removed. And it's like, wait. So everybody there are gatekeepers. Every single step is important to protect what we do because we're affecting human computer interaction. It's not just fun. This is people's lives and relationships and emotions and data and goodness. Let's take a series,
- Brendan Jarvis:
- I've probably mentioned this before, but I had a really great conversation with Bob Baxley, who used to be at Apple as one of the heads of design, and now he's senior VP of design at ThoughtSpot. And he described what it is that we do and some really interesting terms actually that really stuck with me. And his view is that software, the design and the development, the creation of software products is actually the most important and influential cultural medium of our time. And that, wow, that really struck me as a way of framing the just amazing opportunity and ability to impact the culture that we have and the responsibility that comes along with that. And so I get it. When you say that it annoys you, it frustrates you when people don't quite wrap their brains around the gravity of mm-hmm. What it is or the potential of influence and impact that we can have.
- William Ntim:
- Yes. And then, because if they don't, then it's going to affect their methodology. It's going to affect the output, it's going to affect what's pushed out. And that's not going to support, I mean, it's going to skew culture or society into a whole different direction or directions that are not really helping us as a whole. No research, no this, no that. And it's like, what are we doing? We're killing that culture. We're killing that crap. But that's such a beautiful way to put it. Yes. It's definitely, we're shaping the future. We're shaping experiences and computers are not going anywhere. They're in cars, they're in everything now. So even conversational design with all these new in-home devices, conversational design, no screens, but they're still UX designers, or not you, but conversational designers that are building these experiences. Every single detail matters. We cannot even take that lightly. Yeah.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- I want to come back to time cause I feel like what we've just been talking about and time dovetailing here, at least in my brain, and there's often a lot of pressure in the environments that we work in. We were just talking off here how it's been a really busy year and that it's actually mine. My years seems to be finishing in a more hectic manner than it started, right? Yes. But there's never enough time. It's a constant issue that we face probably every industry does, to be fair. But I always hear designers complaining about not having necessarily enough time or resource to practice design in the perfect way. The way that we read about in the books and that we get all excited about, and this really, really, really frustrates designers. How do you manage the tension, the sort of inherent tension that exists in a world that they're are scarce resources and never enough time in order to do perfect work. How do you navigate this and still make things that you are proud of?
- William Ntim:
- So that's a really good question. I think it comes up to prioritization and prioritization of every single aspect of your life. It's so deep. So you have the professional aspect, but your sleep, your health breaks all of those matter in order to, oh, I think that goes to support a little bit of what I was talking about on the podcast with Caden. Yeah. So it's about that high productivity. Most people think it's just like, oh, I gotta either perfect my skills and watch a bunch of YouTube videos. No, listen to podcasts, that's great, but are you taking breaks? Are you staying active? How are you eating? What does that look like? Because your performance is dependent on your health, dependent on how healthy you are. So I would say prioritization. Prioritization of every single detail in your life, including what time you sleep, what time you wake up, what time you eat.
- So our calendars are mostly just meetings. My calendar has what time I wake up, what time I ate breakfast, what time I have a snack, what time I have lunch, what time, because you have to have that full day calendar. If you miss out on any of that, that time is going to go to waste more than likely because it is. And then going up to or interjecting here about financial knowledge and management something that Dave Ramsey said about planning for every dollar. So the money that you don't plan for, it's probably going to go to waste. You're probably going to buy something stupid with it. So it's
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Like something will speak for it, right? Yeah. Something will find a way. You'll find to spend it somehow. Yes.
- William Ntim:
- Yeah. Yes, yes. So it's in the same way every second. Every second is every second matters where you got plan for every second I wake up, you know, wake up at 7, 7 30, and then, okay, 15 minutes. And as you wake up, you're actually paying attention to this time that you've set for yourself. And I think that's the key. So prioritization and then planning every second of that, 2012 hours, 24 hours that you have. Now it's a bit broad, but I promise people, guys, this is really the key.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- And it sounds like health, your own health is actually quite an important part of that in your hierarchy of prioritization. And there are a number of cliches about that. But it is really true. And I've noticed this over this year, there is nothing more important than your health. And certainly during the extended lockdown we had here in New Zealand, in particular in Auckland of almost four months, that went by the wayside a little. And the way I got it back was scheduling time for me to go out and do physical activity in my calendar. I know that sounds a bit over the top, maybe to some people but if I didn't, it didn't happen. And yeah, it's really important. People look after you, look after your health and you'll find that you've got the energy to deal with the other challenges that are presenting themselves
- William Ntim:
- And sticking with it, planning, putting it up and sticking with it. And now I'm always enjoyed riding bicycles. So I might actually looking for it this next season in my life, I'm going to be, I'm looking for a bicycle. I like craftsmanship. So I want something that's created with really love and care and also the ability to support a small business. So I want something that like that. And then I also want to pick up boxing. Just something that I've never done, but I'm like, why not really? If people ask themselves, why not a lot? They would surprise themselves.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- It'll be the hardest thing that you've ever done. I'm going boxing in 20 minutes and just Oh really? Just for fitness with my trainer. And I promise you, you think you're fit before you put on some gloves and then hit some pads. You'll find out just how fit you are after you've done your first session.
- William Ntim:
- Oh, that's awesome. Wow. That's even better. I love it. I love that. I love that feedback. I'm excited. Cause if it's going to help me just realize, okay, you need to maybe work on this, do this, and then over time really commit to it. Sign up for a monthly, whatever I need to do and just stick with it. I think it's important. Yeah.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- This is actually making me think of, just before we wrap up for today, it's making me think of, and I can't remember who I heard this from, but you have to consider making decisions. The one decision that will remove a thousand others. And I think that that is really applicable to what we've been talking about here. My pre-commitment to fitness comes in the form of making a decision to get a boxing trainer. And it just means that I know every week, three times a week, I have to turn up at whatever time we've agreed. Cuz if I don't, I won't. And I'll let somebody else down. It's just something now that I do. So yeah, try to remove all those unnecessary mental loads that you place on yourself by having to make choices every day when you can just make one and make it much easier for yourself.
- William Ntim:
- Exactly. Exactly. That's beautifully said.
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Yeah. So William, if 2020 and 2021 have shown us anything, it's that life doesn't always work out as we'd hoped for. And that the universe doesn't really care too much about the carefully made plans that we've just both spoken about. Yeah, you've had to deal with your own set of challenges through your life as everyone listening will have to deal with theirs as well. And you've come out on top. Things are going pretty well for you. Thank you. For the people listening today, what's your message for them as they begin 2022? What do you want them to remember from our conversation, from your story, from all the things that you've put out into the world, what do you want them to remember and to focus on in 2022?
- William Ntim:
- That is awesome. That's a great question. So if there's anything that I want listeners to remember, is that the first one being you have so much that's already in you that the world is waiting for. And I think it's important for every individual to realize that because if not, we all miss out on what you have to offer. And if you're not able to take advantage of it, who knows? I mean, we have electricity, we have all these inventions that think about the one device or invention that you utilize a lot. If that person, man or woman did not fully manifest and tap into that, we wouldn't have that better life, comfortable life that we have today. So that's key. That's number one. And then the second part is plan, plan, plan, strategy, plan, strategy. But actually no, before you plan and strategize, I would say research, read, learn just always learn always every si.
- So that's the only thing. Every single time of my day I'm learning something. Even so I could be working on a project, even at work, working on projects that work. And I would have a podcast playing in the background, or I'd have on a book on audiobook, playing in background or a YouTube channel of 10 things you didn't know existed in Sweden or something. And just [laugh] every single moment. So I'm multitasking and my brain left and every single part is being utilized because I have perfected the skill of the UX, my UX part. So I'm building that by then. I'm also learning at the same time. And then the process evolves into something fun, something even better because now I'm not just designing and feeling like, oh, this is so much work. I hate UX, they're not pay me enough. No, it's like I'm enjoying what I'm doing, but also I'm learning at the same time and utilizing time at least twice.
- If you can utilize your time in a way that benefits you in a way that you're learning, please do it. Because that's going to help you with planning is going to give you more knowledge, more data to execute as you go. And then do not be afraid. Do not be afraid of trying new things. Treading new waters, these sound cliche, but even local to UX design is that do not be afraid to take on new roles and new industries, new companies that you may have thought, I don't wanna work for this company. Maybe cuz I read one article in online and then now I believe this thing about them. Look, if you know are able to give companies a chance, if you're able to look at it, there's something that I can learn here. Because there is something that you can learn in every company, good or bad.
- So if you can look at it through those lenses, I believe that you will surprise yourself with the opportunities and the environment that you'll find yourself in. And of course, do not take any abuse or anything crazy. Stand up for yourself as always. And then please protect our craft as designers protect what we do. Because essentially the fate of humanity, the future of technology depends on it. Culture depends on it. The generation that's coming after first depends on it. So it's not something to be taken lightly. We need to protect the methodol methodologies, the processes, respect the craft refine, reiterate, and keep that process intact. Because if the moment we stop doing that, we pr, the moment we stop doing that is the moment we produce experiences that really do not serve the greater purpose. So let's do that. And then I think for the last thing I would say, yeah, I already said don't limit yourself, but live fully.
- Because we talked about time and time is fascinated by every single day, not in a scared way. Do not be afraid of time, but try to own it. If you really need to buy an hour, well, I would say buy an hourglass just to really start [laugh]. Start appreciating that process of when you have it in your hand and it's going and you realize, wait, this is actually a representation of time. It's like it's, you're watching it deplete. It's a whole new way of looking at life and you will succeed. I mean, I think we're all going to be all right if we keep working at what we're supposed to be doing. So
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Yeah, what a great place to leave our conversation. William, I've really enjoyed the energy and the very clear passion that you have brought to it. Thank you for so generously sharing your stories and your experiences with me today.
- William Ntim:
- Thank you for having me. This is awesome. Thank you for what you're doing for the UX community, by the way. You're fully living it out, you're fully manifesting. And I think that is what we're, we've been talking about all day today. If we can each fully focus and fulfill and manifest our purpose, we contribute to the greater good in the future of technology. So
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Yeah, you're most welcome. I'm very touched. William, if people wanna follow you and find out about all the wonderful contributions that you're making to the field, to our community, what's the best way for them to do that?
- William Ntim:
- I would say LinkedIn, and my name is William Ntim on LinkedIn. And then YouTube. I'm going to start, I'm starting a YouTube channel, trying to get some more content uploaded there, so that's going to be good. And then of course on Amazon and all the book stores, I'm going to be making sure my books are available there as well. So
- Brendan Jarvis:
- Perfect. Thanks William. I'll make sure that I link to everything, all the ways that people can find you, YouTube channel, LinkedIn, where they can find the book and books when the new one's out. Let me know. Everything as if people will know will be covered in the show notes as well. So you'll be able to get hold of those resources there. If you enjoyed the show and you want to hear more great conversations like this with world-class leaders in UX, design and product management, don't forget to leave a review on the podcast, subscribe and also pass the podcast along if you feel that there are other people in your sphere that would get value from these conversations. If you wanna reach out to me, you can find me on LinkedIn as well. My profile will be linked to in the show notes at the bottom, or you can head on over to thespaceinbetween.co.nz and find me there. That's thespaceinbetween.co.nz. And until next time, keep being brave.